People, Let's not get upset and act irrational over this. The Venus Project felt that the TZM wasn't following certain aspects of their directions, so they decided (I guess to lessen the confusion) to part from TZM. Granted, they both went about it the wrong way, or not the way everyone had expected it to end. Nevertheless, people can still join The Venus Project (doors are still open) don't let this be an emotional hinderance from trying to help. Visit Jacque and talk to him about it, i'm sure he'll be willing to answer your questions. There was just miscommunication from both organizations, and yes they both had different "goals". Otherwise, there wouldn't have been miscommunication. The TVP organization wants to change society from the top and bottom by aiming at leaders and try to bridge the differences between other nations. Now, TZM on other hand is looking for a more global community type transition starting from the bottom up. Both are valid views, and both are hard to accomplish (and need our support). I guess my point is don't let this whole conflict between the two bring you down. Keep supporting both TZM and TVP, do whatever you can to understand The Venus Project. Visit Jacque. Peter Joseph did a great job and it's a real shame that Jacque put him (and us) down like that, real shame. But i'm not looking for an apology or comfort, my goal is to try understand them (I really have to visit Jacque). Peter joseph will be talking more about this tomorrow (Wednesday) on the ZMGlobal Radio Show : http://www.blogtalkradio.com/zmglobal - Make sure to visit.
Doesn't Roxanna understand if we work together we might actually achieve GREATNESS. Rather than who is in charge ...WE ALL ARE!
Some dumbass comments below, I see. There are two egos here: Peter's and Jacque's. Apparently Roxanne is here representing Jacque's, when really he should be here (but it sounds like they reached her the last second.) Roxanne is arguing that Peter has had too much control over their work and they are feeling uncomfortable at this point and want to back out. Doesn't this sound reasonable? I'm not picking sides here, as I am saying this seems like a battle of two egos (Peter's and Jacque's) but we don't know all the details behind the scenes, do we?
Check THIS guy out, he sounds like a thug.
I think if everyone would adapt the little idea of 'no offense meant, no offense accepted', then you can retain the emotional distance to not get mad or insulted or any other dysfunctional response. I've lost it in Teamspeak, got augmentative and insulted, so I'm not trying to take a social position on anyone, but using that little concept has helped me to not react to what happens or what is said in the many forums and chats I have participated in. Inherent in that little statement is a recognition that every person is of so much value that they should be able to say what they want without the subconscious intimidation of another person getting mad at them. Try humor instead... that usually helps. Anger is psychic intimidation, so come on folks, keep it together.
Peter speaks the truth here. "Over, and over and over and FUCKING over again." "This is a bunch of poor people trying to help you."
If the Global effort of the ZM and VP are based upon the opinions and research of Jacque and Peter, then that is the problem, and if we don't try to understand the whole picture, beyond anyone's viewpoint, including mine, then we will not have the adaptation required to make it through the Transition in an survivable manner. It always a mistake to put all our effort based upon any one or few people's particular viewpoint. The goal is too large, the result of doing it wrong too intensely horrible, to have such limited viewpoints.
Frankly, much of this sounds like burn out. Burnout always has legit reasons for happening, But it's sad that so many people see this as a schism. I will continue to advocate the development and use of Jacque's ideas and technology, as well as R. Buckminster Fuller's ideas and technologies, and frankly everyone who understands and promotes holistic technology, human freedom, and ecological harmony. While there are many groups working on the Big Problem, we are one species and one direction towards survival.
Peter Joseph is Right! Roxanne, stop being dumb!
The goal of the ZM and VP are, I thought, the survival of Humanity on this planet through the rational application of technology and the liberation of the population from odious social control systems. As long as our efforts and understanding is not violent or coercive in any way, the organizational boundaries are not particularly relevant and anything that is tried is fine. We will learn by experiment, and Jacque's lifelong experiments are certainly the main pool of ideas and knowledge gained we work from. In the old paradigm, two groups are automatically considered to be in competition, or seperate organs, but in this larger paradigm shift, that is not true unless the members think of it that way. In the old paradigm, schisms are competitive organisms in the larger pond. But in the new paradigm, we are all just projects of humanity attempting to find a way to change to survive, to save the whole pond.
This is really, really sad. =/
What is the Say you're talking about? Is it the Say in the direction or the technical aspects of TVP? If so, we can any day have a combined forum, where designated TVP gurus propose ideas thoroughly, and once understood (and then approved) by majority of all the people, they can be put forward to everyone associated with us. Its quite simple to understand, the point is not whose Say is louder, but whose point is valid and how it can be achieved and what are its implications. Roxane sounds like a true capitalist.
Could you put this up for download?
Peter Joseph's Response.
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