@juan-carlos-ramirez: Exactly, they're just jealous. Jealous of how fast and how large 'that other movement using our pictures' has grown. TVP needed 30 years to be something.
This is what I like about the Universe... We can't blaim anyone for doing the things they think are right. Even if those things look wrong in our state of mind. As long as we feel that we are doing what we must do in life we can say that we're on track.
Let's give TVP guys a break! So TVP, good luck and thanks for the time of cooperation and the lessons you gave us. Hope your views will guide you to your ultimate goal.
@Pierrot: This does not sound like Jacques AT ALL. I saw his presentation when he visited Australia, and he was about sharing of information, he said himself that his designs are not supposed to BE THE UTOPIAN design, they are just potential ideas. This is awful close-minded crap
I think TZM can now move forward without the psychological issues that Jaque and Roxanne (you don't need to turn on the red light) bring to the growing global awareness. Good that it came out when it did. We can move forward and spread the REAL possibility of a RBE. PJ is right about the "major motion picture". You just don't do that off the bat.
PJ is clear and lucid in his thinking and actions. Roxanne and Jaque are concerned about their mortality and legacy. And credits. Royalties honey. In the end they're about the monetary system.
TVP - Beyond Politics, Poverty and War. Yeah, right. Nice demonstration of that tonight.
Yes, mimic Peter's tone.
Thanks to Jaque for his input. No thanks to what you just did. I will support TZM because he's not prone to control issues. TVP has exposed there psychological inability to deal with the scope of this movement.
Anybody can do the models.
Roxanne is doing doing the "mother' thing with Jaque. Subjectivity. Ownership. Legacy. She's afraid Peter will get all the credit. But guess what. The idea is out there. TVP concept will be taken forth whether you like it not.
Peter is an advertising exec. He would know how to get things mainstream must faster. TVP probably think they know everything.
It would have been an easy OUT for her. Take the "I'm insulted" angle.
More information about this.
Please listen to this: http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-94979/TS-473785.mp3 - Franklee interview with Jacque. Building the Bridges.
and this: http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/1/782/show_1782755.mp3 - VTV interview with The Venus Project.
It's a good point.
You have the designs, the blueprints for the future?? I thought it was for all of us to work and share ideas...
OK, so note what Roxanne said about giving the ideas and technology away once before and how it came at a price? Because of their designs and how people used them, large portions of people died. This is no small deal to miss or skip over so I can understand their fear in that there ideas may get misused. Guys its hard to control how a message sounds once its been passed along many people who tell others. In other words, there is no way to control (dont misinterpret my use of the word control) absolutely how people perceive this message. Christianity was interpreted incorrectly at times and sub-sects were formed as a result, this has happened within the movement. Ive heard of more than one example where this message has landed with people who decide to go their own way. This, as far as I understand is the fear of Roxanne and Jacque.
Zeitgeist was a big hit and gained a huge following, but the Zeitgeist Movement began when it gained a direction and that was, and IS the Venus Project. We are the megaphone that can shout that little bit louder than just 2 people alone can, hence why they must have seen the point in having US join THEM and promote the conclusions of the Venus Project.
What I propose, in an attempt to salvage this situation is that we STOP. BREATHE and THINK for a second. This goes for everyone equally.
What if we stopped the promotion and activism just for a little while, and in the meantime Jacque and Roxanne make workshop videos that are designed to clarify and educate the Zeitgeist members who may or may not FULLY understand the mindset needed to fully comprehend the ideals of the Venus Project? Forgetting all egoism for a second, it took Jacque a long time to fully develop these ideas and come to these conclusions, and Roxanne has been working with him for what, 30 years? THis movement 2/3 years old and we're out there directing traffic to the site and building a following but I think we could ALL do with taking a lesson from the person who arrived at these conclusions first. We're essentially be going back to school and learning what we should have been taught in the first place by society?
These videos could hone our focus so that we can accurately define, outline the necessity and efficiently communicate the idea of the Venus Project. And IMAGINE THE RESULT OF THIS! There would be, after rigorous work from us all - We would be 540, 000 members all not just ADVOCATING the Venus Project, but TEACHING PEOPLE THE VENUS PROJECT. Must have taken Jacque a long time to learn how to "Turn people around" in... what an hour? Thats a learned skill. Imagine. After a lot of work on our part, 540, 000+ Jacque Frescos telling people that we can change.
Does this sound like Something we can work with? We could split the videos up into Specific Subjects. Jacque has already done this with the drawing workshop, which is really well taught, why not this, HIS LIFE'S WORK?! If this marriage (not the Movements individually) is going to shit ANYway, why the feck not try at least? This way it relieves the fear of the Venus Project that people, they haven't even met, may be projecting this in the wrong way. And like Peter, the founder, Said we have no direction. We are the promotion of the Venus Project.
The TVP and TZM splitting..... As much as I would like to think they both have their reasons, it was COMPLETELY unnecessary! The only understanding we all had of TZM was that it was upholding the ideas of TVP. The whole act I think totally blew the very essence of the movement. Crucial decisions were made on basis of ego and it’s a shame that TVP contradicted its very idea. Roxanne was clearly incapable of pointing out any reason why and where TZM didn't go in accordance with them. And if there were issues I could have been sorted out “mutually”. After all we are talking about the world to be ONE here! If Peter thinks it’s pointless to contribute in making a movie right now, he had his reasons which I think should be respected. And like Roxanne states TVP does not anyway depend on TZM for the finance then why blow this whole thing out of proportion? Out of the whole meeting, I could only make this out that TZM was keen on finding out where they precisely went off track and TVP was so egocentric about not receiving merit for its idea and designs. I can’t help but be judgmental right now about the whole situation. We want the world to unite and we are parting ways here!
The idea is to have a resource based economy and not unite under any banner be it THE VENUS PROJECT or THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT!
I will never act UNDER anyone's control or umbrella... I will only act WITH anyone. Period
Roxanne those thing are not "yours" According to Jacque the VP has no ownership. WTF?
the ZM movement has no one person to run it. its run by the people VP says that there should be no government. why s there now i need for roxanne and jacque to run it now.
Roxanne says dont use our things, I thought that a resource based economy there is no owner ship according to an old man called Jacque Fresco
Its just makes me to sad and a bit angry to hear this conversation. Roxanne sounds like a politician, dancing around directly answering the question, while insisting she has answered the question repeatedly. Sad to say, I really think Peter is right, and this is an ego thing, where they were pissed Peter didn't endorse the Major Motion Picture. I just can't believe I woke up one day, and this is how TVP is conducting itself. Certainly not the end of the movement, but certainly a harsh/unjustified blow from an ally and teacher.
@handsinair: I think you're very right in that. It's so sad, nevertheless.
@georgepacheco: I thought that the TVP was saying that humans are beautiful, intelligent beings. Now you say that our society is primitive and we can't even handle technology which supposedly we don't understand. So, instead of the TVP enlightening us, they will behave like a bunch of technocrats in order to "protect" us from our ignorance?!
@Moonlander: Lol, Hell yeah! XD. Awesome though. People are fighting for this direction and it warms my heart.
all so sad.
Could it be that Roxane is setting herself up to "own" TVP after Jacque passes away?
I've seen similar things happen with other groups. When the leader dies, the others fight over the rights to the estate, and then with that fighting, supporters disassociate with the group, and the idea dies with the leader.
I have a HUGE issue with Roxana speaking for Jacque. Maybe she should take a vacation, and allow him to get more balance without her voice in his ear.
Peter said it best. This is all ego, and extremely disappointing from people who are claiming to want a free open source information society. She would have an explanation other than TZM is a different entity or different "direction" -- she would have voiced real concerns to Peter or other contacts in the movement if there were any motivation other than ego over the origin of these designs or their project.
@Rildrim: Have we not learned from past experiences? It's a double edge-sword when you think about it. Giving technology to people who don't understand it is a not a good idea. Look around you. They use it the only way they know how, and for what? money, war, power, death and destruction. I would seriously think twice about giving out information to a primitive society.
@Rildrim: "It took millions of years for man to evolve from a super-ape into a thinking animal, but during the past 30 years of increasing gadgetry, man has back-slid, mentally, and physically. Technology perfects machines that even feeble minds can operate. The unintelligent user of gadgets still retains the mentality of primitive man. Machines get better, and better; illogical beliefs persist. Mechanized in moronic man, moves toward extinction." - Earnest Albert Hooton 1887 – 1954
An organization that doesnt allow the free distribution of its information is doomed. TVP is delivering a contradictory message by talking about social change and being so closed minded, reactionary and old fashioned in many matters. The poor behavior theyre publicly exhibiting is going to destroy all the few credibility theyd achieved before becoming an authoritarian and unquestionable institution in which critical thinking is punished and the free flow of ideas and information restricted.
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