greets peeps...just a bit about me, started mixing mid 90's-on cd, got vinyl few years l8r (felt like i was taking a step back), using cd's until about 6mths, i now have a laptop.midi controller.a few other bits and pieces...some ppl see software as cheating, matches beats up4u, can even auto crossfade etc etc etc..compared too conventional means "by ear"..it does sound a lil sneaky..but ANYONE can do that-u could even train an animal to do that-theres no creative skill involved in that...then along comes Ableton Live...which doesn't match the beats up all by itself-where u can manipulate any controllable aspect over any vst/vsti plugin u have, u can chop/edit/twist any sample from ur collection-even tracks playing (on the fly)..add a keyboard riff/effects..blend in/out..man the list is endless...what u can achieve with Ableton...u just don't have enough arms to do conventionally...it's just not a case of 1click-track mixes in sync-far from it...so if next time u see some1 with a laptop..just bear in mind "were not all the same" @the end of the day - does it really matter ?.......just shut up and dance ... :)
Can people REALLY tell - how you are mixing ?....cd's/vinyl/software and last but not least..software used creatively.. (17 posts) Back to the forum "Music"
- adv_dj
- LakrymisT
word to that.
- Leecifer
i really admire those that can use the turntable as an instrument. i consider it an art and that's why not just anyone can do it. that having been said, i really don't give a shit what the dj uses as long as they don't play garbage.
- adv_dj
Well........:)......hehe...i've got that movie...wkd....i wouldn't want2...scratching has to be vinyl..can't beat it....as Leecifer said and which i agree with is....quote:"really admire those that can use the turntable as an instrument. i consider it an art " i see dj'ing constantly evolving...cassette tapes (c90's) then vinyl then cd/dvd then digital (mp3 players/HDD/flash drives/laptops) i'm not 1 2 say that this is better than that etc etc-not gonna argue-just2prove a point, i'm not in2 that...but if you go clubbing/partying..with the intention on having good time..hearing the choons u wanna hear...if they're mixed well-does it matter how the dj has done it ??....unless ur intention was to go see how they do it ??....i dunno....all i can say is that my set-up suits ME fine..@the end of the day thats all that counts. true ? :)
- Paz
ive been a dj since 1990. I can beatmatch 3 decks in my sleep. got nothing to prove to anyone and i really couldnt give a shit.
ive been djing on virtualdj for 2 years now and i love it. could not give one flying squirrel for people who regularly attack me for using software. even further i use the autobeatmatch. it gives me more time to do other things like plan my set.
the way i look at it is like olympic running. to run, you need to be able to walk. you will never question an olympic runners ability to walk, or even run. You will be taking a look at his technique on running very fast. Albeit using an aide like software is like the running doping his blood. But when you push the bar, this happens.
you can quote me on this: the purpose of technology is not to make life easier, its to achieve more complex things. with software you can use some nice digital effects which you couldnt do with cdjs and an effects unit. if you play requests, you can be online and get every single request that comes by your booth. if you carry a tonne of music, you can fit it all. you wont get stopped at the airport and be questioned, your bag wont go missing because you can carry it on you.
all in all, its not how you mix the music, its what you mix and the story you tell. ive been asked by a number of purist djs trying to make a point: "yeah, but its not djing because then anyone can do it and then the idea of a dj dissappears". Not true whatsoever. My response to that is "true, but i can do things no other non-dj person can do with the same software". An artist will always be able to do it one step better because art is about pushing boundaries.
there is no argument that all djs agree that you need 'the ear' to do this job well. this is not something any software can do. in fact ive met several international djs that i once respected and found out that when the pioneer CDJ-1000 mkii came out, they were pissed off. Why? Becuase the BPM counter didnt work properly back then and it was irritating to them.
Hang on... so the same djs accusing me of cheating with software are doing it themselves? pot calling the kettle black. the difference between you and i my friend is that i can beatmatch without any aide, you cannot. i learned using belt drive turntables at 14 and played at parties just pushing the speed along with my finger with no pitch control. it sounded like shit, but hey, when you that young anything impresses you.
so story be told, i have little respect for those who refuse to put merit to software djs. it proves you have difficulty with the changing times. it means in another 5 years, when the world is doing something totally new, you;ll be left in the dark , still confused.
always focus on the end-game: giving pleasure to the masses. most people in my crowd still dont understand the concept of a mixer, so they couldnt give a shit whether im on vinyl, CDJ or laptop. they do care if my mixes are not concise and telling a great story. as a friend once told me, "are you here to DJ for yourself and your buddies, or are you here to DJ for the crowd? if you answered the first, then you're wrong and you should quit now before someone embarrasses you"
i completely agree with that statement. i find that the dudes attacking me in my booth are wannabes who say they are a dj. one guy attacked me last week. some fool from london acting all cool .telling me im lazy for using software and not doing it 'london style' whatever that is. he even dared lay hands on my mixer and starting playing with knobs, telling me he's been a dj for 15 years. he then proceeded to ask me which one was the bass, mid and high on a pioneer 800.
This pathetic dance happens over and over again and im largely unimpressed. i dont claim to be a top dj, im humble insofar i have my own style, i still learn and progress and i still look to other artists for inspiration. but im confident insofar that i can challenge anyone on oldschool vinyl and hold my own. so in that case, i really dont care what you have to say about my software....
my two cents
- Geek Revolt
Lets get this in perspective.....a dj is someone who plays other peoples records and it amazes me seeing some of these guys/girls being treated as gods
There has always been snobbery in the dj circles.....as technology improves....we have seen >
the vinyl dj disrespecting the cd dj
the cd dj disrespecting the mp3 dj
the mp3 dj disrespecting whatever is coming next!!!Ive watched guys play a complete mix cd and try to make it look like they were mixing it...shocking
Personally Ive never seen the appeal of scratching either, it was kind of interesting 20 years ago though
Playing 2 tracks in time together in ableton or traktor is really not that difficult even ive done it....its nowing what tracks work is the secret and thats the skill part.
I do have a great deal of respect for 'artists' that use something like Ableton in a creative way....not just playing 2 tracks together but as Sasha would deem it 'A live remix'
If you ever get a chance to see BT do a laptop symphony I would recommend it.my 2pence/2cents worth
- ANT ( Generic People)
Our two cent ....
..... Our Generic People Djs remix sets are done on two laptops, 4 midi controlers, some outboard fx units, a big bag of vsts and 2 djs (some times 3 djs if we add cdjs) and a whole lotta
Even tho there is a lot going on we try to keep the rawness and soul to our sets......
Judge for your selves and Check out some sets here esp our live set from the Electric Picnic
www.GenericPeople.podomatic.com - Geek Revolt
Just to add another thing.....went clubbing in Berlin last year and Ableton does appear to be pretty popular by EJ's (ok done a google cant find a reference to this so im claiming it....i will now refer to anyone who uses a laptop instead of disc's as an EJ...lol)
My one critism (and its is a bit hackneyed to use this analogy) they do look like they are checking their emails!!!
Think its pretty essential to use a controller that you are comfortable with....and try to keep the gazing at the screen to a minimumThe other danger of EJ'ing is going over the top with the adding of parts.....there is a sensible balance!!!...saw James Zabiela, and was really looking forward to his set...but holy crap he spoilt every god damn track laying up 3 drumloops over everything, 2 basslines etc etc....really ruined it for me.....I know its clever but sometimes people just want to listen to the tracks and build ups and breakdowns but his set just didnt go anywhere.....Strangely I think Sasha has learnt this lesson and has toned down his layering of stuff
- adv_dj
EJ's ??...like it m8..i agree with "checking emails" and the need of good controller..hands on tweaking ppl..hands on, u naturally get a feel4the vibe with a controller...and commenting on over-layering/balance of parts..i saw a few vids on youtube (mentioning no names) of this guy who was highly rated with using ABLETON..twoddle..absolute c*ap..seriously...then i thought "there's hope4me yet !!" LOL...tracks didn't go anywhere as GeekRevolt mentioned..the crowd was going mad4it...hey-if they got off on it, thats cool with me..but his sets could of been so much more full of life and hit the spot4a lot more ppl..so my advice is get a controller/s..a set-up doesn't cost a fortune either....take-care peeps....me done :)
- Paz
seriously, if anyone gets more excited about a dude bopping up and down behind turntables more than a guy behind a laptop, god help them. its supposed to be about the music.
there is validity when you goto see a band vs a dj. tiesto and his juvenille stage-antics doesnt do anything for me except irritate me, but seeing a dj like roni size and his 10-piece band is awesome.
so being a dj already is a killjoy for stage presence. honestly, im there for the music, so i couldnt give a crap.
- adv_dj
well said Paz...quote :"im there for the music, so i couldnt give a crap."
- Moth Hunter
i have to say im 50/50, i used to be completely digital/MIDI controller DJ...but i got jack of it...i got jack of the fact most controllers have very little feedback control, i got jack of staring at a computer screen...i felt disconnected from the music, because of all the bells and whistles. i even got jack of all the effects, as i think most of the time i was just adding in effects, because, well really there was nothing else for me to do.
i like the simplicity of vinyl, but cannot afford it...so the convenience if digital files is an absolute must...but so so many MIDI controllers are absolutely rubbish, and the number of different options means you spend half your time tracking down MIDI mappings to only get half the buttons to work, i think it all is falling a little flat atm...its the future sure, but the present is a poor brother to CD decks atm...also think Ableton by and large is not up to scratch...great for your own material, but seriously, unless your cutting up all the tracks before hand (which unless you Sasha and you have other people to do that for you, takes a lot of time) your options are limited
- adv_dj
thanks4 ur view Moth....good2hear from the other side of the fence (excuse pun)...have u seen the vcm600 midi from vestax ? a dream m8..a dream indeed (thats set-up no1), uc33e+oxygen8 midi keyboard (set-up no2)..i agree that theres crap out there..i see it as pushing what set-up you have got too the max...a template set-up on the uc33 (no more mouse!!) wkd stuff...as4setting up midi mapping-well thats down to the individual i think :).....with ableton not being upto scratch, i dont agree with that, u cant just throw ur choons in and expect them to be in sync (virtual dj/mixmeister/etc/etc)...the whole idea is that u WARP ur choons b4 hand..only needs to be done once..thats the only time consuming part..from that part u can set loop markers/cut parts out/drop clips in/ in sync cos u've WARPED ur choon b4hand...with technology like this now-the only limitations on the users options, are his/her imagination. true ?
- crabnebula
I would like to see what Sasha classes as a live remix using ableton and his Maven controller it would be interesting to see how many tracks he is working with in a Live environment i was blown anyway a few years ago by the Maida vale mix he did sounded like some seriously clever stuff going on, but how much of that was pre prepared and how much was on the fly i'll never know.
It also depends on how fast your computer is i just know i'd need a Mac Pro to do any serious performance stuff or it would just run out of steam.
- Moth Hunter
^^^@adv_dj
yer, i have seen the new VCI controllers, they do look the business, although i haven't had a play on them. i think now you are starting to see the interfaces catch up with the software. still, i think the thing about Ableton is that although there are literally countless possibilities, it can also make Dj's very lazy...i think i have seen just as many inspired Ableton performances (Gui Boratto comes to mind) than i have boring arse laptop 'experiences', where they simply stare are their screen...although, as i said, with new interface controllers, i can feel the change is coming.
i still think there is a place to look forward to a DJ's skill and performance, rather than just consider them as music boxes. I personally get very irritated at lazy DJ's, whether digital or whatever, even if they are playing good music
- nexus
I use decks the odd time, but in fairness I'm just more fluent with software. Serato is such a fun tool. I love using software, allows you to mix and be creative in ways that are impossible otherwise. software just picks up where other equipment fails. simple as.
and in relation to whether you can tell by listening to a mix, i think it's noticeable sometimes when you are familiar with how tracks are supposed to sound usually. play in whatever medium you want and when it's done well, it gets noticed.
- mobidextrous
As I am from UK I am still just laughing out loud at the guy upset at the above poster not doing it "London Style"
That's some funny sh*t.
